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Interviews - - 03. Playboy [1964]Проза и поэзия >> Русская современная проза >> См. также >> Набоков, Владимир >> Interviews Читать целиком Nabokov's interview. (03) Playboy [1964]
This exchange with Alvin Toffler appeared in
Playboy for January, 1964. Great trouble was taken on
both sides to achieve the illusion of a spontaneous
conversation. Actually, my contribution as printed conforms
meticulously to the answers, every word of which I had written
in longhand before having them typed for submission to Toffler
when he came to Montreux in mid-March, 1963. The present text
takes into account the order of my interviewer's questions as
well as the fact that a couple of consecutive pages of my
typescript were apparently lost in transit. Egreto perambis
doribus!
With the American publication of Lolita in 1958,
your fame and fortune mushroomed almost overnight from high
repute among the literary cognoscenti-- which you bad
enjoyed for more than 30 years-- to both acclaim and abuse as
the world-renowned author of a sensational bestseller. In the
aftermath of this cause celebre, do you ever regret
having written Lolita?
On the contrary, I shudder retrospectively when I recall
that there was a moment, in 1950, and again in 1951, when I was
on the point of burning Humbert Humbert's little black diary.
No, I shall never regret Lolita. She was like the
composition of a beautiful puzzle-- its composition and its
solution at the same time, since one is a mirror view of the
other, depending on the way you look. Of course she completely
eclipsed my other works-- at least those I wrote in English:
The Real Life of Sebastian Knight, Bend Sinister, my
short stories, my book of recollections; but I cannot grudge
her this. There is a queer, tender charm about that mythical
nymphet.
Though many readers and reviewers would disagree that
her charm is tender, few would deny that it is queer-- so much
so that when director Stanley Kubrick proposed his plan to make
a movie of Lolita, you were quoted as saying, "Of course
they'll have to change the plot. Perhaps they will make Lolita
a dwarfess. Or they will make her 16 and Humbert 26. " Though
you finally wrote the screenplay yourself, several reviewers
took the film to task for watering down the central
relationship. Were you satisfied with the final product?
I thought the movie was absolutely first-rate. The four
main actors deserve the very highest praise. Sue Lyon bringing
that breakfast tray or childishly pulling on her sweater in the
car-- these are moments of unforgettable acting and directing.
The killing of Quilty is a masterpiece, and so is the death of
Mrs. Haze. I must point out, though, that I had nothing to do
with the actual production. If I had, I might have insisted on
stressing certain things that were not stressed-- for example,
the different motels at which they stayed. All I did was write
the screenplay, a preponderating portion of which was used by
Kubrick. The "watering down," if any, did not come from my
aspergillum.
Do you feel that Lolita's twofold success has
affected your life for the better or for the worse?
I gave up teaching-- that's about all in the way of
change. Mind you, I loved teaching, I loved Cornell, I loved
composing and delivering my lectures on Russian writers and
European great books. But around 60, and especially in winter,
one begins to find hard the physical process of teaching, the
getting up at a fixed hour every other morning, the struggle
with the snow in the driveway, the march through long corridors
to the classroom, the effort of drawing on the blackboard a map
of James Joyce's Dublin or the arrangement of the semi-sleeping
car of the St. Petersburg-Moscow express in the early 1870s--
without an understanding of which neither Ulysses nor
Anna Karenin, respectively, makes sense. For some reason
my most vivid memories concern examinations. Big amphitheater
in Goldwin Smith. Exam from 8 a.m. to 10:30. About 150
students-- unwashed, unshaven young males and reasonably
well-groomed young females. A general sense of tedium and
disaster. Half-past eight. Little coughs, the clearing of
nervous throats, coming in clusters of sound, rustling of
pages. Some of the martyrs plunged in meditation, their arms
locked behind their heads. I meet a dull gaze directed at me,
seeing in me w^ith hope and hate the source of forbidden
knowledge. Girl in glasses comes up to my desk to ask:
"Professor Kafka, do you want us to say that . . . ? Or do you
want us to answer only the first part of the question?" The
great fraternity of C-minus, backbone of the nation, steadily
scribbling on. A rustle arising simultaneously, the majority
turning a page in their bluebooks, good teamwork. The shaking
of a cramped wrist, the failing ink, the deodorant that breaks
down. When I catch eyes directed at me, they are forthwith
raised to the ceiling in pious meditation. Windowpanes getting
misty. Boys peeling off sweaters. Girls chewing gum in rapid
cadence. Ten minutes, five, three, time's up.
Citing in Lolita the same kind of acid-etched
scene you've just described, many critics have called the book
a masterful satiric social commentary on America. Are they
right?
Well, I can only repeat that I have neither the intent nor
the temperament of a moral or social satirist. Whether or not
critics think that in Lolita I am ridiculing human folly
leaves me supremely indifferent. But I am annoyed when the glad
news is spread that I am ridiculing America.
But haven't you written yourself that there is "nothing
more exhilarating than American Philistine vulgarity"?
No, I did not say that. That phrase has been lifted out of
context, and, like a round, deep-sea fish, has burst in the
process. If you look up my little after-piece, "On a Book
Entitled Lolita," which I appended to the novel, you will see
that what I really said was that in regard to Philistine
vulgarity-- which I do feel is most exhilarating-- no
difference exists between American and European manners. I go
on to say that a proletarian from Chicago can be just as
Philistine as an English duke.
Many readers have concluded that the Philistinism you
seem to find the most exhilarating is that of America's sexual
mores.
Sex as an institution, sex as a general notion, sex as a
problem, sex as a platitude-- all this is something I find too
tedious for words. Let us skip sex.
Have you ever been psychoanalyzed?
Have I been what?
Subjected to psychoanalytical examination.
Why, good God?
In order to see how it is done. Some critics have felt
that your barbed comments about the fashionability of
Freudianism, as practiced by American analysts, suggest a
contempt based upon familiarity.
Bookish familiarity only. The ordeal itself is much too
silly and disgusting to be contemplated even as a joke.
Freudism and all it has tainted with its grotesque implications
and methods appears to me to be one of the vilest deceits
practiced by people on themselves and on others. I reject it
utterly, along with a few other medieval items still adored by
the ignorant, the conventional, or the very sick.
Speaking of the very sick, you suggested in Lolita
that Humbert Humbert's appetite for nymphets is the result
of an unrequited childhood love affair; in Invitation to a
Beheading you wrote about a 12-year-old girl, Emmie, who is
erotically interested in a man twice her age; and in Bend
Sinister your protagonist dreams that he is "surreptitiously
enjoying Mariette (his maid) while she sat, wincing a little,
in his lap during the rehearsal of a play in which she was
supposed to be his daughter. " Some critics, in poring over
your works for clues to your personality, have pointed to this
recurrent theme as evidence of an unwholesome preoccupation on
your part with the subject of sexual attraction between
pubescent girls and middle-aged men. Do you feel that there may
be some truth in this charge?
I think it would be more correct to say that had I not
written Lolita, readers would not have started finding
nymphets in my other works and in their own households. I find
it very amusing when a friendly, polite person says to me--
probably just in order to be friendly and polite-- "Mr.
Naborkov," or "Mr. Nabahkov," or "Mr. Nabkov" or "Mr.
Nabohkov," depending on his linguistic abilities, "I have a
little daughter who is a regular Lolita." People tend to
underestimate the power of my imagination and my capacity of
evolving serial selves in my writings. And then, of course,
there is that special type of critic, the ferrety,
human-interest fiend, the jolly vulgarian. Someone, for
instance, discovered telltale affinities between Humbert's
boyhood romance on the Riviera and my own recollections about
little Colette, with whom I built damp sand castles in Biarritz
when I was ten. Somber Humbert was, of course, thirteen and in
the throes of a pretty extravagant sexual excitement, whereas
my own romance with Colette had no trace of erotic desire and
indeed was perfectly common-place and normal. And, of course,
at nine and ten years of age, in that set, in those times, we
knew nothing whatsoever about the false facts of life that are
imparted nowadays to infants by progressive parents.
Why false?
Because the imagination of a small child-- especially a
town child-- at once distorts, stylizes, or otherwise alters
the bizarre things he is told about the busy bee, which neither
he nor his parents can distinguish from a bum-blebee, anyway.
What one critic has termed your "almost obsessive
attention to the phrasing, rhythm, cadence and connotation of
words" is evident even in the selection of names for your own
celebrated bee and bumblebee-- Lolita and Humbert Humbert. How
did they occur to you?
For my nymphet I needed a diminutive with a lyrical lilt
to it. One of the most limpid and luminous letters is "L". The
suffix "-ita" has a lot of Latin tenderness, and this I
required too. Hence: Lolita. However, it should not be
pronounced as you and most Americans pronounce it: Low-lee-ta,
with a heavy, clammy "L" and a long "o". No, the first syllable
should be as in "lollipop", the "L" liquid and delicate, the
"lee" not too sharp. Spaniards and Italians pronounce it, of
course, with exactly the necessary note of archness and caress.
Another consideration was the welcome murmur of its source
name, the fountain name: those roses and tears in "Dolores." My
little girl's heartrending fate had to be taken into account
together with the cuteness and limpidity. Dolores also provided
her with another, plainer, more familiar and infantile
diminutive: Dolly, which went nicely with the surname "Haze,"
where Irish mists blend with a German bunny-- 1 mean, a small
German hare.
You're making a word-playful reference, of course, to
the German term for rabbit-- Hase. But what inspired you
to dub Lolita's aging inamorato with such engaging redundancy?
That, too, was easy. The double rumble is, I think, very
nasty, very suggestive. It is a hateful name for a hateful
person. It is also a kingly name, and I did need a royal
vibration for Humbert the Fierce and Humbert the Humble. Lends
itself also to a number of puns. And the execrable diminutive
"Hum" is on a par, socially and emotionally, with "Lo," as her
mother calls her.
Another critic has written of you that "the task of
sifting and selecting just the right succession of words from
that multilingual memory, and of arranging their many-mirrored
nuances into the proper juxtapositions, must be psychically
exhausting work. " Which of all your books, in this sense,
would you say was the most difficult to write?
Oh, Lolita, naturally. I lacked the necessary
information-- that was the initial difficulty. I did not know
any American 12-year-old girls, and I did not know America; I
had to invent America and Lolita. It had taken me some forty
years to invent Russia and Western Europe, and now I was faced
by a similar task, with a lesser amount of time at my disposal.
The obtaining of such local ingredients as would allow me to
inject average "reality" into the brew of individual fancy
proved, at fifty, a much more difficult process than it had
been in the Europe of my youth.
Though born in Russia, you have lived and worked for
many years in America as well as in Europe. Do you feel any
strong sense of national identity?
I am an American writer, born in Russia and educated in
England where I studied French literature, before spending
fifteen years in Germany. I came to America in 1940 and decided
to become an American citizen, and make America my home. It so
happened that I was immediately exposed to the very best in
America, to its rich intellectual life and to its easygoing,
good-natured atmosphere. I immersed myself in its great
libraries and its Grand Canyon. I worked in the laboratories of
its zoological museums. I acquired more friends than I ever had
in Europe, My books-- old books and new ones-- found some
admirable readers. I became as stout as Cortez-- mainly because
I quit smoking and started to munch molasses candy instead,
with the result that my weight went up from my usual 140 to a
monumental and cheerful 200. In consequence, I am one-third
American-- good American flesh keeping me warm and safe.
You spent 20 years in America, and yet you never owned
a home or had a really settled establishment there. Your
friends report that you camped impermanently in motels, cabins,
furnished apartments and the rented homes of professors away on
leave. Did you feel so restless or so alien that the idea of
settling down anywhere disturbed you?
The main reason, the background reason, is, I suppose,
that nothing short of a replica of my childhood surroundings
would have satisfied me. I would never manage to match my
memories correctly-- so why trouble with hopeless
approximations? Then there are some special considerations: for
instance, the question of impetus, the habit of impetus. I
propelled myself out of Russia so vigorously, with such
indignant force, that I have been rolling on and on ever since.
True, I have rolled and lived to become that appetizing thing,
a "full professor," but at heart I have always remained a lean
"visiting lecturer." The few times I said to myself anywhere:
"Now, that's a nice spot for a permanent home," I would
immediately hear in my mind the thunder of an avalanche
carrying away the hundreds of far places which I would destroy
by the very act of settling in one particular nook of the
earth. And finally, I don't much care for furniture, for tables
and chairs and lamps and rugs and things-- perhaps because in
my opulent childhood I was taught to regard with amused
contempt any too-earnest attachment to material wealth, which
is why I felt no regret and no bitterness when the Revolution
abolished that wealth.
You lived in Russia for twenty years, in West Europe
for 20 years, and in America for twenty years. But in 1960,
after the success of Lolita, you moved to France and
Switzerland and have not returned to the U. S. since. Does this
mean, despite your self-identification as an American writer,
that you consider your American period over?
I am living in Switzerland for purely private reasons--
family reasons and certain professional ones too, such as some
special research for a special book. I hope to return very soon
to America-- back to its library stacks and mountain passes. An
ideal arrangement would be an absolutely soundproofed flat in
New York, on a top floor-- no feet walking above, no soft music
anywhere-- and a bungalow in the Southwest. Sometimes I think
it might be fun to adorn a university again, residing and
writing there, not teaching, or at least not teaching
regularly.
Meanwhile you remain secluded-- and somewhat sedentary,
from all reports-- in your hotel suite. How do you spend your
time?
I awake around seven in winter: my alarm clock is an
Alpine chough-- big, glossy, black thing with big yellow beak--
which visits the balcony and emits a most melodious chuckle.
For a while I lie in bed mentally revising and planning things.
Around eight: shave, breakfast, enthroned meditation, and
bath-- in that order. Then I work till lunch in my study,
taking time out for a short stroll with my wife along the lake.
Practically all the famous Russian writers of the nineteenth
century have rambled here at one time or another. Zhukovski,
Gogol, Dostoevski, Tolstoy-- who courted the hotel chambermaids
to the detriment of his health-- and many Russian poets. But
then, as much could be said of Nice or Rome. We lunch around
one p.m., and I am back at my desk by half-past one and work
steadily till half-past six. Then a stroll to a newsstand for
the English papers, and dinner at seven. No work after dinner.
And bed around nine. I read till half-past eleven, and then
tussle with insomnia till one a.m. about twice a week I
have a good, long nightmare with unpleasant characters imported
from earlier dreams, appearing in more or less iterative
surroundings-- kaleidoscopic arrangements of broken
impressions, fragments of day thoughts, and irresponsible
mechanical images, utterly lacking any possible Freudian
implication or explication, but singularly akin to the
procession of changing figures that one usually sees on the
inner palpebral screen when closing one's weary eyes.
Funny that witch doctors and their patients have never
hit on that simple and absolutely satisfying explanation of
dreaming. Is it true that you write standing up, and that you
write in longhand rather than on a typewriter?
Yes. I never learned to type. I generally start the day at
a lovely old-fashioned lectern I have in my study. Later on,
when I feel gravity nibbling at my calves, I settle down in a
comfortable armchair alongside an ordinary writing desk; and
finally, when gravity begins climbing up my spine, I lie down
on a couch in a corner of my small study. It is a pleasant
solar routine. But when I was young, in my twenties and early
thirties, I would often stay all day in bed, smoking and
writing. Now things have changed. Horizontal prose,
vertical verse, and sedent scholia keep swapping qualifiers and
spoiling the alliteration.
Can you tell us something more about the actual
creative process involved in the germination of a book--
perhaps by reading a few random notes for or excerpts from a
work in progress?
Certainly not. No fetus should undergo an exploratory
operation. But I can do something else. This box contains index
cards with some notes I made at various times more or less
recently and discarded when writing Pale Fire. It's a
little batch of rejects. Help yourself. "Selene, the moon.
Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket town" . . .
"Berry: the black knob on the bill of the mute swan" . . .
"Dropworm: a small caterpillar hanging on a thread" . . . "In
The New Bon Ton Magazine, volume five, 1820, page 312,
prostitutes are termed 'girls of the town' "... "Youth dreams:
forgot pants; old man dreams: forgot dentures" , . . "Student
explains that when reading a novel he likes to skip passages
'so as to get his own idea about the book and not be influenced
by the author'". . . "Naprapathy: the ugliest word in the
language."
"And after rain, on beaded wires, one bird, two birds,
three birds, and none. Muddy tires, sun" . . . "Time without
consciousness-- lower animal world; time with consciousness--
man; consciousness without time-- some still higher state" . .
. "We think not in words but in shadows of words. James Joyce's
mistake in those otherwise mar-velous mental soliloquies of his
consists in that he gives too much verbal body to thoughts" . .
. "Parody of politeness: That inimitable 'Please' -- 'Please
send me your beautiful-- ' which firms idiotically address to
themselves in printed forms meant for people ordering their
product." . . .
"Naive, nonstop, peep-peep twitter of chicks in dismal
crates late, late at night, on a desolate frost-bedimmed
station platform" . . . "The tabloid headline TORSO KILLER MAY
BEAT CHAIR might be translated: 'Celui qui tw an buste peat
bien battre une chaise" . . . "Newspaper vendor, handing me
a magazine with my story: 1 see you made the slicks.' " "Snow
falling, young father out with tiny child, nose like a pink
cherry. Why does a parent immediately say something to his or
her child if a stranger smiles at the latter? 'Sure,' said the
father to the infant's interrogatory gurgle, which had been
going on for some time, and would have been left to go on in
the quiet falling snow, had I not smiled in passing". . .
"Inter-columniation: dark-blue sky between two white columns."
. . . "Place-name in the Orkneys: Papilio" . . . "Not 1, too,
lived in Arcadia,' but 'I,' says Death, even am in Arcadia'--
legend on a shepherd's tomb (Notes and Queries, June 13,
1868, p. 561)" . . . "Marat collected butterflies" . . . "From
the aesthetic point of view, the tapeworm is certainly an
undesirable boarder. The gravid segments frequently crawl out
of a person's anal canal, sometimes in chains, and have been
reported a source of social embarrassment." (Ann. N. Y.
Acad. Sci. 48:558).
What inspires you to record and collect such
disconnected impressions and quotations?
All I know is that at a very early stage of the novel's
development I get this urge to garner bits of straw and fluff,
and eat pebbles. Nobody will ever discover how clearly a bird
visualizes, or if it visualizes at all, the future nest and the
eggs in it. When I remember afterwards the force that made me
jot down the correct names of things, or the inches and tints
of things, even before I actually needed the information, I am
inclined to assume that what I call, for want of a better term,
inspiration, had been already at work, mutely pointing at this
or that, having me accumulate the known materials for an
unknown structure. After the first shock of recognition-- a
sudden sense of "this is what I'm going to write"-- the
novel starts to breed by itself; the process goes on solely in
the mind, not on paper; and to be aware of the stage it has
reached at any given moment, I do not have to be conscious of
every exact phrase. I feel a kind of gentle development, an
uncurling inside, and I know that the details are there
already, that in fact I would see them plainly if I looked
closer, if I stopped the machine and opened its inner
compartment; but I prefer to wait until what is loosely called
inspiration has completed the task for me. There comes a moment
when I am informed from within that the entire structure is
finished. All I have to do now is take it down in pencil or
pen. Since this entire structure, dimly illumined in one's
mind, can be compared to a painting, and since you do not have
to work gradually from left to right for its proper perception,
I may direct my flashlight at any part or particle of the
picture when setting it down in writing. I do not begin my
novel at the beginning. I do not reach chapter three before I
reach chapter four, I do not go dutifully from one page to the
next, in consecutive order; no, I pick out a bit here and a bit
there, till I have filled all the gaps on paper. This is why I
like writing my stories and novels on index cards, numbering
them later when the whole set is complete. Every card is
rewritten many times. About three cards make one typewritten
page, and when finally I feel that the conceived picture has
been copied by me as faithfully as physically possible-- a few
vacant lots always remain, alas-- then I dictate the novel to
my wife who types it out in triplicate.
In what sense do you copy "the conceived
picture" of a novel?
A creative writer must study carefully the works of his
rivals, including the Almighty. He must possess the inborn
capacity not only of recombining but of re-creating the given
world. In order to do this adequately, avoiding duplication of
labor, the artist should know the given world.
Imagination without knowledge leads no farther than the back
yard of primitive art, the child's scrawl on the fence, and the
crank's message in the market place. Art is never simple. To
return to my lecturing days: I automatically gave low marks
when a student used the dreadful phrase "sincere and simple"--
"Flaubert writes with a style which is always simple and
sincere"-- under the impression that this was the greatest
compliment payable to prose or poetry. When I struck the phrase
out, which I did with such rage in my pencil that it ripped the
paper, the student complained that this was what teachers had
always taught him: "Art is simple, art is sincere." Someday I
must trace this vulgar absurdity to its source. A schoolmarm in
Ohio? A progressive ass in New York? Because, of course, art at
its greatest is fantastically deceitful and complex.
In terms of modern art, critical opinion is divided
about the sincerity or deceitfulness, simplicity or complexity,
of contemporary abstract painting. What is your own opinion?
I do not see any essential difference between abstract and
primitive art. Both are simple and sincere. Naturally, we
should not generalize in these matters: it is the individual
artist that counts. But if we accept for a moment the general
notion of "modern art," then we must admit that the trouble
with it is that it is so commonplace, imitative, and academic.
Blurs and blotches have merely replaced the mass prettiness of
a hundred years ago, pictures of Italian girls, handsome
beggars, romantic ruins, and so forth. But just as among those
corny oils there might occur the work of a true artist with a
richer play of light and shade, with some original streak of
violence or tenderness, so among th" corn of primitive and
abstract art one may come across a flash of great talent. Only
talent interests me in paintings and books. Not general ideas,
but the individual contribution.
A contribution to society?
A work of art has no importance whatever to society. It is
only important to the individual, and only the individual
reader is important to me. I don't give a damn for the group,
the community, the masses, and so forth. Although I do not care
for the slogan "art for art's sake"-- because unfortunately
such promoters of it as, for instance, Oscar Wilde and various
dainty poets, were in reality rank moralists and didacticists--
there can be no question that what makes a work of fiction safe
from larvae and rust is not its social importance but its art,
only its art.
What do you want to accomplish or leave behind-- or
should this be of no concern to the writer?
Well, in this matter of accomplishment, of course, I don't
have a 35-year plan or program, but I have a fair inkling of my
literary afterlife. I have sensed certain hints, I have felt
the breeze of certain promises. No doubt there will be ups and
downs, long periods of slump. With the Devil's connivance, I
open a newspaper of 2063 and in some article on the books page
I find: "Nobody reads Nabokov or Fulmerford today." Awful
question: Who is this unfortunate Fulmerford?
While we're on the subject of self-appraisal, what do
you regard as your principal failing as a writer-- apart from
forgetability?
Lack of spontaneity; the nuisance of parallel thoughts,
second thoughts, third thoughts; inability to express myself
properly in any language unless I compose every damned sentence
in my bath, in my mind, at my desk.
You're doing rather well at the moment, if we may say
so.
It's an illusion.
Your reply might be taken as confirmation of critical
comments that you are "an incorrigible leg puller, " "a
mystificator, " and "a literary agent provocateur. " How
do you view yourself?
I think my favorite fact about myself is that I have never
been dismayed by a critic's bilge or bile, and have never once
in my life asked or thanked a reviewer for a review. My second
favorite fact-- or shall I stop at one?
No, please go on.
The fact that since my youth-- 1 was 19 when I left
Russia-- my political creed has remained as bleak and
changeless as an old gray rock. It is classical to the point of
triteness. Freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of
art. The social or economic structure of the ideal state is of
little concern to me. My desires are modest. Portraits of the
head of the government should not exceed a postage stamp in
size. No torture and no executions. No music, except coming
through earphones, or played in theaters.
Why no music?
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вы долго прожили в токио, если:
- совершая покупки дожидаетесь чека и не читая бросаете его в коробочку
для чеков
- при переходе дороги, вас не уже не удивляет, что pajero остановился,
чтобы вас пропустить
- вы знаете вкус 12 сортов риса
- фильм "трудности перевода" считаете комедией
- уже не смешно говорить в трубку телефона "моши-моши" вместо "алло"
- совмещаете поездку в россию с лечением зубов
- выбор магазина определяется наличием поинт-карты
- у вас много этих поинт-карт
- у вас есть велосипед
- вы научились считать манами не только деньги
- летом вы идете в магазин потому, что там есть кондиционер
- вы знаете, что самая оптимальная температура в любое время года - в
вагоне электричке
- вы знаете что такое "мацуя"
- вас не пугает меню без картинок в ресторане
- вы видели людей, садящихся утром в электричку вместе с вами уже много
раз
- вы не понимаете, зачем нужны заглавные буквы
- у нового русского спрашиваете, пробовал ли он уже натто
- кофе пьете 30-60 минут
- не переходите на противоположную сторону улицы, если на встречу
попалась группа подростков
- у вас появилась мысль "а не купить ли и мне кеды?" |
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показать все
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